The comments threads on CiF often remind me of those tins of mixed chocolates one gets given at holiday times in which there are some good ones, but the vast majority are very unappetising. The Guardian editorial on the subject of the arrest warrant issued by a British court against former Israeli Foreign Minister Tsipi Livni naturally prompted a veritable selection box of offensive commentary below the line.
Yet again, the influence of last month’s Channel 4 ‘Dispatches’ programme was illustrated in the form of conspiracy theorist-style references to the mythical ‘Israel lobby’.
17 Dec 2009, 12:18AM
I was absolutely appalled by Miliband’s and Hague’s statements over this affair.
The COURTS decide if issuing a warrant for arrest is appropriate or not.
This country is rapidly becoming like a banana republic.
I don’t see how an arrest warrant could NOT be issued in the case of Livni.
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out why Miliband and Hague said what they said though does it?
17 Dec 2009, 5:01AM
Of course, we all know that the British-Israel lobby has no real power, don’t we
17 Dec 2009, 1:06PM
I wonder if their apologizing has any thing to do with the clout that Friends of Israel (Labour & Conservative) has over the parties? I’m not suggesting anything but after watching Peter Oborne Dispatches a few weeks ago it does make you wander just how much influence they haveExiledlondoner (or whoever) : To what do you attribute Israel’s extraordinary influence over UK?
17 Dec 2009, 6:14PMSorcey: I’ll tell you how ties will be damaged if EU and UK withdraw their support for Israel. — Israel will withdraw their financial support of political parties. What other power (apart from a USA supported military/nuclear force) does Israel have? Without the underpinning of Israel’s financial support and expertise, USA would not survive. It is not difficult to see who is the most powerful/influential nation on earth. USA is in Israel’s pocket. Why is everyone afraid of Israel? Is it because they might go off half cocked (in our opinion) and unilaterally launch a nuclear pre-emptive strike against Iran? Enlighten me somebody. Israel will do whatever they want to do, without giving any notice or consulting anybody.
My comment of 3;01 pm on Dec.17th was removed. I wish I knew why. Has anyone seen the Guardian’s standards – in writing? I think we should all know precisely what/how we should NOT be writing so that we don’t waste our time and Guardian’s. I don’t get rabidly insulting – but I try to make clear what my views are. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me – even the Guardian! – But censorship is a very heavy hand in a supposed democracy, unless the comment is blatantly rude and profane. And that’s not my style. My ideas may be cockeyed in some people’s eyes, but that goes for all of us.
Then we saw an example of a concept which seems to be becoming increasingly popular on CiF threads – the bracketing together of political leaders from Israel, the US and the UK as ‘war criminals’.
17 Dec 2009, 12:26AM
War criminals backing other war criminals. I doubt anyone is surprised.
Whenever I read a comment like that, I am reminded of the Parisians of 1789 knitting socks by the guillotine. In addition, there were those who are not ashamed to advocate the annihilation of the one and only Jewish state in the world.
17 Dec 2009, 2:25PM
well 20 years from now there will not be an Israel as we know it
they will become a niority tribe in their own country
17 Dec 2009, 3:27PM
Machover has rendered a good service to the Palestinian struggle here; in the words of the song – no saviour from on high delivers, no faith have ye in prince or peer.
The UK will not deliver Palestine from Zionism, nor the EU.
17 Dec 2009, 6:33AM
I would love to see the responses of some of the Israel bashers here if Israel issues an arrest warrant against, shall we say, George Galloway, David Miliband, or Danial Machover, or Allan Rusbridger.
Of the above, only David Miliband, because of his position as Foreign Secretary, could ever have made a decision that might have resulted in a war crime being committed. Which is not to say that he ever has made such a decision.
Be that as it may, it occured to me that this single small act by a court against Israeli’s former Foreign Minister may have done more to humble the Israeli government than all the hundreds of rockets fired into Israeli by Hamas. If only Hamas and similar groups could realise that this sort of non-violent action is they only way forward for them. Isreali is constantly telling the world that it is the only democracy in the region and that it abides by the rule of law. This has been shown by many, including Jimmy Carter in his excellent book “Palestine: Peace not Apartheid,” to be sham.
I, personally, doubt that Israel can ever be made to change it’s approach towards the Palestinians by military means – except in the most catclysmic extreme scenario that would result in thousands losing their lives.
But Israel’s self-proclaimed and much publicised commitment to democracy, human rights and the rule of law are its achilles’ heel because that commitment cannot stand up to detailed scrutiny. Let us see more actions of this sort involving open and public challenges to Israel’s appalling human right record.
We were also treated to an excellent example of the ‘Good Jew/Bad Jew’ school of thought; ah yes – that nice Mr. Goldstone…
17 Dec 2009, 2:25PM
The establishment are getting desperate.
It was suggested on the “Today” programme that Tzipi Livni shouldn’t have been arrested “because Israel is a democracy”.
Since when did “being a democracy” exempt a Government from it’s obligation not to commit War Crimes ?
Our own democracy is deeply flawed when the leaderships of all three major political parties are so cravenly Zionist
David Miliband’s apology to Avigdor Lieberman is disgraceful and made my skin crawl.
What is equally revolting is the attempt to rubbish that distinguished Jewish Jurist Judge Goldstone.
Bizarrely, even a defence of Eichmann appeared, and remained, on this thread.
17 Dec 2009, 7:05AM
It’s obscene to compare Israel’s arrest of Adolf Eichmann, a Nazi who helped plan the final solution, with using universal jurisdiction as a political tool to harass Israeli leaders. Lest people forget, the Goldstone Report found that Hamas had committed war crimes too.
You’re quite right. Israel’s legal remedy was to make a request to Argentina to arrest him, then start extradition proceedings.
Kidnapping him in broad daylight in a foreign country was a wholly illegal act.
And of course a UK court should issue a warrant for the arrest of any named Hamas terrorist who shows his face in Britain. As indeed it would.
But the Brazil nut left at the bottom of the CiF tin of chocolates has to be this comment:
17 Dec 2009, 4:30PM
First of all, Law should be prevail and should not be influenced by politicians.
If this person has nothing to fear and committed nothing, she should have challenged the court and presented her case which I doubt it . ..
I am thrilled to read this article, it is very strong and to the point, if Brown and FS needs some moral guidance , they should read and respond to the article …
UK historically created so called Isreal and this claiming to be country it is worse that South African Appartheid – that one used to ruling based on race and this one based on relegion – all fact are there … i am not bringing it from the blue !??
You can just get academic comparer and see what difference would get out between the two ? you would be surprised .
Am not against Jews in general, but against some of them who creates country only to commit what has been committed against them !!!
Palestinians are born on that land and so their ancestors for thousands of years , my knowledge that jews are nationals of so many countries including Palestine.
Why take other people lands and be a war monger ? didnt we have enough already . ?!
I think Brown should apologise for Britain giving away Palestine whilst had no right to do that ? is it less of case than the slave apology , children shipping apology and the latest apology ? Palestine give away present difinetely deserve one .
UK law should be preserved against any change other ways goodbye human right and morals.
Well, Firsttimeguardian, I think you’ve found your perfect milieu at CiF. Just one thing though; Israel is real, rather than so called, but you don’t have to join the two words together.
Now, where have all the strawberry creams gone?